Curse

Jenn · Jan 21, 2010, 04:17 AM // 04:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by YunSooJin

Probably give you more perspective if you got hacked and then read that little gem of theirs. Hopefully you will learn to gain perspective simply by using that hypothetical as a mental exercise, although if it still doesnt bring perspective maybe being hacked is what's needed *shrug*.

YSJ,

One thing I have learned is that there are at least two sides to every story. It's not just the victims, the antagonists, or NCSoft - it's all of them. All I'm saying is that it's extremely unreasonable to expect anything overnight. I don't think you are qualified to judge whether or not I lack perspective; I'm sure most of us here have lost far more precious things than some silly online items. It just sounds like you're saying I lack your particular perspective.

People do have the right to have high expectations - we are paying them, but NCSoft can't protect everyone, and people aren't perfect. That's all I'm saying

. They've clearly seen what we've had to say, so that is a good thing. I'm merely offering to you another side in all of this since the only thing anyone else here seems content to do is hate on someone/something. We can't change what has happened, and I think they got the message that people are pissed off - why not try and move on to something more constructive? (Or are my hopes too high?

)

Ok, now let's all hold hands and sing a song. Yay optimism!

Chthon · Jan 21, 2010, 04:26 AM // 04:26

Quote:

Despite the fact that this report occurred over the holidays, when the majority of NCsoft employees were home with their families, our security team responded immediately with a point-by-point testing and analysis of the erroneous concerns that were raised. As a result of the point-by-point testing and analysis, our security team concluded no critical vulnerabilities had been demonstrated or identified, but our security team continues to research, to monitor closely, and to implement security improvements to address any potential weaknesses raised.

BULLSHIT! It's like NCSoft saying "who are you going to believe, me or your lying eyes?" Of course we're going to believe our eyes. We've SEEN the problems with the NCSoft site. No amount of corporate spin is going to change that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karate Jesus

I'm glad that we're being listened to. That's nice, but it doesn't change the fact that he basically called all of us liars.....

Yes, I'm downright pissed off about that. And insulted.

Well, if that's their attitude. All I can say is that I'm done with them. I don't care how awesome GW2 looks, I'm never buying another product from NCSoft. Period. It's a shame that a-net, after acting halfway responsible through this mess, ends up caught in the middle, but that's what's going to happen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by End

You should just remove the link. Your just gonna piss more people off....

No RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing shit. Stonewalling was a really, really bad PR move. But this takes moronic to a whole new level.

Snow Bunny · Jan 21, 2010, 04:47 AM // 04:47

Arenanet,

You have no credibility or integrity. Re-read that line. You're about as honest as Richard Nixon and I'm being generous here.

You lie (often) to your playerbase/CONSUMER base. You frequently make illogical decisions that defy previously-stated policy.

Your community managers are never straight - they're either duplicitous or stupid or both. They've frequently issued statements that contradict established fact, and they make about-faces as if they're going out of style.

Your product used to be good. Now it's not. Now it's a piece of shit that isn't worth the change in my pocket that I use to buy coffee.

I don't much play your game any more, mainly because your game is terrible and it's bloated, but I stick around partly because I retain a glimmer of hope that someone at your company that has any say in the process isn't goddamn braindead, and partly because it's actually very interesting to watch a company like yours make baffling mistakes on such a frequent basis.

In sum, you're pathetic.

HawkofStorms · Jan 21, 2010, 05:02 AM // 05:02

While I'm not as jaded as Snow Bunny, I agree with Chthon that these statements are insulting.

Even though I actually like Aion, I'm thinking of canceling my account over these security issues, so as to not provide any financial support to NCSoft. Obviously, A.net/NCSoft isn't going to admit liability for stolen accounts and credit card information, but to actually lie about it shows complete contempt for your customers.

YunSooJin · Jan 21, 2010, 05:04 AM // 05:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Illfated Fat

YSJ,

One thing I have learned is that there are at least two sides to every story. It's not just the victims, the antagonists, or NCSoft - it's all of them. All I'm saying is that it's extremely unreasonable to expect anything overnight. I don't think you are qualified to judge whether or not I lack perspective; I'm sure most of us here have lost far more precious things than some silly online items. It just sounds like you're saying I lack your particular perspective.

People do have the right to have high expectations - we are paying them, but NCSoft can't protect everyone, and people aren't perfect. That's all I'm saying

. They've clearly seen what we've had to say, so that is a good thing. I'm merely offering to you another side in all of this since the only thing anyone else here seems content to do is hate on someone/something. We can't change what has happened, and I think they got the message that people are pissed off - why not try and move on to something more constructive? (Or are my hopes too high?

)

Ok, now let's all hold hands and sing a song. Yay optimism!

I just thought the content of their dialogue is entirely inappropriate when people who otherwise would not have gotten hacked are getting reamed because NCSoft did not practice basic account security measures (ie change the password without the old password...wut?).

I'm not particularly out to pillory ANET/NCsoft - in some ways I couldn't care less, since nothing has happened to me - but to dismiss their shitty service and then to proceed to lecture the community about internet safety (their list btw, is something that has been going around for months) strikes me as an incredibly insensitive, hamfisted approach.

There's a place for optimism, but I think right now its not the right time.

End · Jan 21, 2010, 05:04 AM // 05:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

Even though I actually like Aion, I'm thinking of canceling my account, so as to not provide any financial support to NCSoft.

I did cancel my Aion subscription. When I did I was expecting a little questionnaire like when I canceled my subscription to LOTRO they basically asked why you were canceling and what they could do to improve and such. It's almost as if they already knew why I canceled and what they could do about it...and they didn't care...

I love the game...but...not going to support this...

MagmaRed · Jan 21, 2010, 05:07 AM // 05:07

This is sad and disappointing. I wonder why Anet would have EVER allowed that NCSoft response be seen, as it insults the customers who worked to PROVE problems in hopes of getting them fixed. I have never been a fan of NCSoft, but I'm QUICKLY losing hope for Anet......

pumpkin pie · Jan 21, 2010, 05:16 AM // 05:16

Yeah! this attacked happened since May last year not over the recent holiday! YOU DID NOT LISTEN ArenaNet! my email has not been reply! GOOD FOR YOU TO GET INTO THIS SHIT.

but thanks for finally trying.

If you want to fight RMT, go to court! make sure all in game items are belong to you and for use by the players and cannot be sold by any third party what so ever!

Giga_Gaia · Jan 21, 2010, 05:17 AM // 05:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagmaRed

This is sad and disappointing. I wonder why Anet would have EVER allowed that NCSoft response be seen, as it insults the customers who worked to PROVE problems in hopes of getting them fixed. I have never been a fan of NCSoft, but I'm QUICKLY losing hope for Anet......

I highly doubt Regina actually read that link before posting it herself. Like you said, anyone with half a brain and has been following what's been happening lately would treat that as a major insult. It just goes to show you how (un)impressive they are at their jobs.

Either that or these folks really are that naive, to think people would actually believe their lies.

Martin Alvito · Jan 21, 2010, 05:35 AM // 05:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

Obviously, A.net/NCSoft isn't going to admit liability for stolen accounts and credit card information, but to actually lie about it shows complete contempt for your customers.

The lie is just brazen here.

The rash of hacks stopped after they finally added additional protections to the in-game password reset mechanism on the NCSoft website. The implication is clear. There was a means of gaining unauthorized access, and accounts were being stolen with the password reset mechanism.

So telling us that they found nothing is an obvious lie, unless the vaunted security team is hopelessly incompetent. People were getting in somehow. Whether the mechanism posted on New Year's was the method is immaterial.

A business relationship is invariably founded on trust. You have to believe that the other party is going to take costly actions in the future that are in your interest. NCSoft has revealed through behavior that the company is not very interested in taking costly actions to guarantee the security of our accounts, and will not take responsibility for its own failings.

In a sense, the problem here is caused by the business model. We don't provide a continuous stream of revenues, so why invest resources in keeping us happy? But that's shortsighted thinking. They want to sell us the next game. Hiring proper support resources is simply a necessary marketing expense.

trialist · Jan 21, 2010, 05:48 AM // 05:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Alvito

In a sense, the problem here is caused by the business model. We don't provide a continuous stream of revenues, so why invest resources in keeping us happy?

Aion forums say hi. Those Aion players are paying customers that do provide a continuous stream of income and they don't even get bandaid security fixes like GW.

Face it, throwing wads of cash in their faces isn't going to solve the sheer incompetence of ncsoft.

Pity that Anet is going to continue to suffer for their association with ncsoft.

Arkantos · Jan 21, 2010, 05:58 AM // 05:58

Quote:

Despite the fact that this report occurred over the holidays, when the majority of NCsoft employees were home with their families, our security team responded immediately with a point-by-point testing and analysis of the erroneous concerns that were raised. As a result of the point-by-point testing and analysis, our security team concluded no critical vulnerabilities had been demonstrated or identified, but our security team continues to research, to monitor closely, and to implement security improvements to address any potential weaknesses raised.

Why am I not surprised that NCSoft is denying this.

LONGA · Jan 21, 2010, 06:52 AM // 06:52

Pretty much common sense on NC wall of text.Seems like NC don't have much active measure to prevent hack at the moment.

BTW I already stopped playing GW long ago due to technical problems that NC cant find a reasonable answer to me.

gone · Jan 21, 2010, 07:02 AM // 07:02

gonna drop this off here. post/reply #16 is what you want to be looking at.
http://forums.f13.net/index.php?topic=18547.0

maxxfury · Jan 21, 2010, 07:09 AM // 07:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by flubber

gonna drop this off here. post/reply #16 is what you want to be looking at.
http://forums.f13.net/index.php?topic=18547.0

Quote:

Given how many oversight hoops that article had to jump through to make it on the official site, I hope you all will understand if I can't comment any further on the subject.

in reality he means :

I had to lie my ass off to keep the managment here happy and bs you all just to be allowed to get some kind of response out. now ive been proverbially gagged so the company can try and safe face in light of this farce! btw we RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOed up but arent allowed to admit it.

Turbo Ginsu · Jan 21, 2010, 07:09 AM // 07:09

I think that ultimately, this stupid statement and all of the angst and righteous indignation being shown here as a direct response to it, vindicate my position, and the position of the many like-minded individuals that have expressed similar thoughts, and given good explanation of the reasons for their feeling that way.

Several times, I and others, have voiced concern over aNet and ncSoft's management of security, and more than anything have voiced our belief that aNet has indeed created something far bigger than they either expected it to be, or possibly, they bit off more than they could chew in respect to being able to provide adequate support, bug fixing or skill balancing in general. Every time we've been hit by a wall of the atypical fanboy-isms in the shape of "I r think that jo r a n00b, and don't knows!!"

Well, that does seem to have changed doesn't it? All the twats that accused all of the hacked of being idiots, are now, thanks to anets admission by denial, being made to look like exactly the fanboy asshats they truly are.

What you got to say now boys and girls? You still gonna follow the ncsoft line of "Nothings wrong, move along!" Or are you finally going to 'fess up, come clean, spill the beans, take the wet fish slap and tell the truth? Or is your stone wall of denial arrogance and sheer stupidity just too much of a comforter to let go of?

It's your call anet. Do you want to keep all of your customers, or do you just want the blinkered yes-man variety?

Iuris · Jan 21, 2010, 07:24 AM // 07:24

Quote:

We've SEEN the problems with the NCSoft site.

(timidly raises hand)
I haven't seen any, sir. Where could I see some? They sound scary.

Divine Ashes · Jan 21, 2010, 07:44 AM // 07:44

I can't help but feel most everybody is hopping on the Anet hate bandwagon.

I personally appreciate the time it took to write that message, although I agree with most it did seem a little patronizing and condescending at points. As far as the NCSoft master account problem goes, I believe them when they say they couldn't recreate the problem. There is little to no reason for them to blatantly lie and say they could not recreate it. As a company, it would be disadvantageous to lie about such a thing when there was respect and understanding to be gained from the community by admitting the mistake. As the problem was stated in that note, though, it does seem as if it is simply being dismissed solely on the basis that they couldn't recreate it. It was not fair to toss aside the evidence gathered by those this has happened to, but to be fair, though, Anet did call for people who this did happen to to come forward and tell them exactly what happened. IMO, Anet did everything right as far as dealing with the problem, and the outrage right now seems to be stemming solely from unthoughtful wording.

gone · Jan 21, 2010, 07:58 AM // 07:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divine Ashes

I can't help but feel most everybody is hopping on the NCsoft hate bandwagon.

fix'd that for ya.

EPO Bot · Jan 21, 2010, 09:12 AM // 09:12

All of you will buy GW2 anyway.